Are you Synodal enough ? (WARNING: Buzzword overload!)
Posted by Pete on February 4, 2023, 5:10 am
From Cath News:
“This is a very special time for the Church and, as you know, we are all together, everywhere in the world, living this Synod now,” Sr Nathalie Becquart XMCJ said as she commenced her Australian tour in Melbourne on Tuesday. Source: Catholic Outlook.
The Undersecretary of the Synod of Bishops gave her perspective on synodality, its challenges, and the future of the global Church at a public forum hosted by Newman College in Parkville, in Melbourne’s inner north.
Sr Nathalie shared her reflections on the topic, “Walking together: What lies ahead on the journey to a synodal Church?”
She explained the Synod is “at the service of an ongoing call to deepen the reception of the Second Vatican Council”, that “we are called to live synodality today as a fruit of the Second Vatican Council, and to retrieve the style of the early Church.”
“It’s very clear that where we are going now with this Synod is to become at all levels, a synodal Church, and to live synodality as an integral ecclesiology,” she said. “It has to shape the life and mission of the Church, in all its dimensions. So, what lies ahead is that each of us must become a synod — we must become a synodal sister, a synodal teacher, a synodal priest, a synodal bishop.”
The biggest challenge to becoming a synodal Church, Sr Nathalie said, is the need to “learn by doing” synodality and being open to the process. “We can’t become a single, unified Church just by listening, having nice talks, or reading a book,” she said.
“It’s really about experiencing it. And it’s only when you reflect back, or you reread your experience of turning together that you can discern what will be the way ahead,” she said. “It’s an open, creative path that can be full of surprises and we have to be open to that.”
Sr Nathalie continued her speaking engagements in Adelaide yesterday and will conclude her visit to Australia with two events in the Diocese of Parramatta. Details: Catholic Outlook hub.
. . . how to use a lot of words to say nothing. Sister Nathalie must have a PhD in it.
Re: In short . . .
Posted by Pete on February 11, 2023, 3:06 pm, in reply to "In short . . ."
Previous Message
. . . how to use a lot of words to say nothing. Sister Nathalie must have a PhD in it.
According to ABC News, Sister Nathalie is "The Vatican's most senior woman".
"Sister Nathalie Becquart, the first woman to receive voting rights in the Synod of Bishops, is on a tour of Australian Catholic dioceses, advocating for the church to listen more to its congregation."
Sr Becquart is a French nun of the Congregation of Xavieres, and was appointed by Pope Francis as the under secretary to the Synod of Bishops, which will meet this year to discuss the future of the church.
She is considered a more modern Catholic figure and has previously addressed advocacy groups fighting for the inclusion of LGBTQI+ people in the church, as the institution grapples with declining participation in Australia.
Sr Becquart said the Catholic church needed an open dialogue on its history of child abuse, and must include more women to resonate with younger generations.
"The young people nowadays, they grew up in a world with more gender equality, even if it's not finished," she said.
"They want the church to be the church of today."
On Friday night she spoke at the Parramatta Diocese at St Patrick's Cathedral, a diocese that has tried to modernise under the leadership of Bishop Vincent Long, who has also shown support for LGBTQI+ communities.
Sr Becquart's mission to modernise has upset more conservative parts of the Catholic church, but she has the backing of Pope Francis, who recently called on willing Catholic leaders to welcome LGBTQI+ people into their congregations."
Posted by John on February 12, 2023, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
Yep, if there's a cliché regarding the perceived negative attitudes of the Church to be found, Sr Nathalie will find it and pipe it to the world as if it's the truth.
And, of course, the ABC is a very willing partner in any such endeavour. You quote this passage from the ABC article:
She is considered a more modern Catholic figure and has previously addressed advocacy groups fighting for the inclusion of LGBTQI+ people in the church, as the institution grapples with declining participation in Australia.
"more modern Catholic figure" That is supposed to indicate that she is better than "less modern" Catholic figures, but doesn't.
And this sneaky wording: "inclusion", when no one is actually excluded from the church. I have lived in many Catholic parishes, and have not once encountered any attempt to exclude anyone from the Church except when someone deliberately makes a statement or gesture that demonstrates defiance of Catholic doctrine. So "inclusion" really means acceptance of beliefs that are contrary to Catholic traditional doctrine. And "declining participation" is an extremely poor reason for abandoning the truth.
Re: In short . . .
Posted by Pete on February 12, 2023, 7:22 pm, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
Well John, having had a bit of read through some of the Synodal documents (see link), there seems to be a huge amount of "waffle" with very little in the way of direct and concrete conclusions vis-a-vie the future of the Church, it's teaching and practices. It does seem though that "inclusion" is one of the more dominant themes and as we know this is most commonly expressed these days in relation to LGBTQ...etc and the "participation of women". These two areas of course strongly overlap with the secular world.
I find it difficult to be confident this whole "Synodal" process isn't a "sneaky" way of pushing the Church towards implementing teaching and practices that are not consistent with Truth. For all Pope Francis's ambiguous, disconcerting and possibly erroneous statements, he hasn't actually changed any Church Teaching in a "Magisterial" sense. Unfortunately there may come a time where the "reformers" may actually do this. One thing is for sure, it's going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out come later this year and early 2024. My feeling is it's likely to be very controversial, if not downright heretical!
Yep, if there's a cliché regarding the perceived negative attitudes of the Church to be found, Sr Nathalie will find it and pipe it to the world as if it's the truth.
And, of course, the ABC is a very willing partner in any such endeavour. You quote this passage from the ABC article: She is considered a more modern Catholic figure and has previously addressed advocacy groups fighting for the inclusion of LGBTQI+ people in the church, as the institution grapples with declining participation in Australia. "more modern Catholic figure" That is supposed to indicate that she is better than "less modern" Catholic figures, but doesn't.
And this sneaky wording: "inclusion" , when no one is actually excluded from the church. I have lived in many Catholic parishes, and have not once encountered any attempt to exclude anyone from the Church except when someone deliberately makes a statement or gesture that demonstrates defiance of Catholic doctrine. So "inclusion" really means acceptance of beliefs that are contrary to Catholic traditional doctrine. And "declining participation" is an extremely poor reason for abandoning the truth.
Re: In short . . .
Posted by Tony M on February 12, 2023, 8:25 pm, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
The other day I was reading a book recently published, a collection of perspectives on the life and thought of John Henry Newman. In a chapter titled "JHN on the Development of Doctrine" in a section 'The Sensus Fidelium', Prof T Rowland quotes Yves Congar:
"We live in a world that is desacralized, individualistic, analytic and academic, a world in which ideas are investigated for their own sake and easily separated from their signs or their sensible embodiments. For us, one of the faithful is a 'believer', one who holds intellectually certain transcendental maxims, who has "religious convictions." But in the Christian tradition in which thought impregnated at least until the thirteenth century, a fidelis was someone sacramentally incorporated in the ecclesial reality. Not only was the faith he professed essentially the Trinitarian faith of the Symbol, it was the reality in him of baptism and his being part of the Church which, after having brought him to birth, formed him, nourished his life, governed all his actions, consecrated and united every moment of his existence to Christ."
'This is a good definition of a fully functional fidelis', the good Prof. notes.
That same day, I happened to read a newspaper article about Synodal Sr. Nat.
'....The Second Vatican Council has empowered Catholics “but we are in a kind of transitional phase, and in the mindset of many people, they haven’t realised (they) are called to be active”.
“We need to continue to empower lay people to help them understand the church is not only the priests and the bishops, the church is also the people,”.....
... Gender equality and mutual respect was a problem for society as well as the church: “Even if we see women prime ministers in many countries, we also know with the #MeToo movement that we have a long way to go to get rid of a pattern of abuses of power above women.”
I was left wondering if these people were indeed from the same planet, let alone church.
Re: In short . . .
Posted by John on February 13, 2023, 4:00 pm, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
If you thought I’d disagree with your first para, Pete, you’re going to be disappointed. It is precisely because so many Church figures these days waffle that heresy creeps in; waffle can be interpreted whichever way one wants to, and although, as you point out, Pope Francis doesn’t himself change Church teachings, his ambiguous comments leave the door open for activists to claim that their interpretations of what he says constitute the Church’s current teachings.
And, of course, the Synodol process is sneaky – it’s Vatican III by stealth.
Re: In short . . .
Posted by Pete on February 13, 2023, 4:00 pm, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
The likes of Sister Nat are the same New Church, liberal, Modernists we know so well aka.. The "Catholica" brand of "thinking Catholics" too clever and cool for the boring, fuddy-duddy, restrictive, "out of touch" Magisterial Church and teaching.
I'm not of the view, as are some, that Vatican 2 was the end of the legitimate Church but more of a further step (albeit a fairly significant one) towards the time when there really will be a False Church - the "abomination in the Holy Place". I think we've been creeping towards the False Church for a very long time - ideologically stretching as far back as at least the "Enlightenment".
The ideological mainstream today of feminism, LGBQTism, tolerance, diversity, equality etc was a fringe movement in the 60s and now dominates. Similarly the liberal, Modernist New Churchers have been growing in influence and power such that we see the likes of Sister Nat in high positions but much more significantly the Pope himself often sounds very much the Modernist or to be more blunt - another mouthpiece for Woke Globalism.
They are definitely from the same Planet - unfortunately though it seems their hearts, minds and souls are more confirmed to it - the Planet/World - than they are the True God!
And they seem intent on conforming the Church to the World rather than seeking to conform the world to the Church and Jesus Christ.
Previous Message
The other day I was reading a book recently published, a collection of perspectives on the life and thought of John Henry Newman. In a chapter titled "JHN on the Development of Doctrine" in a section 'The Sensus Fidelium', Prof T Rowland quotes Yves Congar:
"We live in a world that is desacralized, individualistic, analytic and academic, a world in which ideas are investigated for their own sake and easily separated from their signs or their sensible embodiments. For us, one of the faithful is a 'believer', one who holds intellectually certain transcendental maxims, who has "religious convictions." But in the Christian tradition in which thought impregnated at least until the thirteenth century, a fidelis was someone sacramentally incorporated in the ecclesial reality. Not only was the faith he professed essentially the Trinitarian faith of the Symbol, it was the reality in him of baptism and his being part of the Church which, after having brought him to birth, formed him, nourished his life, governed all his actions, consecrated and united every moment of his existence to Christ."
'This is a good definition of a fully functional fidelis ', the good Prof. notes.
That same day, I happened to read a newspaper article about Synodal Sr. Nat.
'....The Second Vatican Council has empowered Catholics “but we are in a kind of transitional phase, and in the mindset of many people, they haven’t realised (they) are called to be active”.
“We need to continue to empower lay people to help them understand the church is not only the priests and the bishops, the church is also the people,”.....
... Gender equality and mutual respect was a problem for society as well as the church: “Even if we see women prime ministers in many countries, we also know with the #MeToo movement that we have a long way to go to get rid of a pattern of abuses of power above women.”
I was left wondering if these people were indeed from the same planet, let alone church.
Re: In short . . .
Posted by John on February 13, 2023, 4:35 pm, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
Oh, the gems just keep on coming! Sr Nat never misses an opportunity; each time she digs into her grab bag of clichés she strikes gold. Take this one that you have mentioned, Tony:
“We need to continue to empower lay people to help them understand the church is not only the priests and the bishops, the church is also the people”
Actually, I remember hearing that first in about Grade 1, and learning that it was part of the Church's teaching on the Mystical Body of Christ. It's taken Sr Nat a long time to catch up, and either hasn't heard of the Mystical Body, or prefers to keep Christ out of Christianity. Progressive thought is more fun than Gospel truth and traditional doctrine.
Did I just write "progressive throught"? From cliché to oxymoron in one short post!
Re: In short . . .
Posted by Pete on February 14, 2023, 6:44 am, in reply to "Re: In short . . ."
Yes John, but they can't call it "Vatican III" because that sounds too stuffy and "top-down" elitist these days. Seems like "synodality" means something more like "democratisation" - what could possibly go wrong ?
Previous Message
If you thought I’d disagree with your first para, Pete, you’re going to be disappointed. It is precisely because so many Church figures these days waffle that heresy creeps in; waffle can be interpreted whichever way one wants to, and although, as you point out, Pope Francis doesn’t himself change Church teachings, his ambiguous comments leave the door open for activists to claim that their interpretations of what he says constitute the Church’s current teachings.
And, of course, the Synodol process is sneaky – it’s Vatican III by stealth.
Re: Are you Synodal enough ? (WARNING: Buzzword overload!)
I agree Tony, Pete and John with all you have said. It's very, very sad to see the Roman Catholic Church in such a woeful state. I say "Roman" because compared to the Eastern Rite and orthodox churches which appear to be flourishing and stable, it does seem to be a western problem. All this talk about being inclusive is ridiculous. I have never in my entire life heard about anyone being excluded from the church . I think if people are truly honest and spiritually mature the most wholesome way to be part of the Church is to assent to her teachings and live according to divine Will. Women in the church already hold an important role, not just being mothers and wives but also leaders. Why have tamtrums about being priests? It's so ridiculous. So unscriptural. For all the scant religious formation, lost traditions, liturgical dances, women priests, rainbow saches, bad church music and other gimmicks the Roman and protestant churches have lost their flock but the Eastern churches keep on growing.
From Cath News:
“This is a very special time for the Church and, as you know, we are all together, everywhere in the world, living this Synod now,” Sr Nathalie Becquart XMCJ said as she commenced her Australian tour in Melbourne on Tuesday. Source: Catholic Outlook.
The Undersecretary of the Synod of Bishops gave her perspective on synodality , its challenges, and the future of the global Church at a public forum hosted by Newman College in Parkville, in Melbourne’s inner north.
Sr Nathalie shared her reflections on the topic, “Walking together: What lies ahead on the journey to a synodal Church?”
She explained the Synod is “at the service of an ongoing call to deepen the reception of the Second Vatican Council”, that “we are called to live synodality today as a fruit of the Second Vatican Council, and to retrieve the style of the early Church.”
“It’s very clear that where we are going now with this Synod is to become at all levels, a synodal Church, and to live synodality as an integral ecclesiology,” she said. “It has to shape the life and mission of the Church, in all its dimensions. So, what lies ahead is that each of us must become a synod — we must become a synodal sister, a synodal teacher, a synodal priest, a synodal bishop.”
The biggest challenge to becoming a synodal Church, Sr Nathalie said, is the need to “learn by doing” synodality and being open to the process. “We can’t become a single, unified Church just by listening, having nice talks, or reading a book,” she said.
“It’s really about experiencing it. And it’s only when you reflect back, or you reread your experience of turning together that you can discern what will be the way ahead,” she said. “It’s an open, creative path that can be full of surprises and we have to be open to that.”
Sr Nathalie continued her speaking engagements in Adelaide yesterday and will conclude her visit to Australia with two events in the Diocese of Parramatta. Details: Catholic Outlook hub.