Posted by Lee
on October 11, 2009, 8:37 pm
71.195.136.129
Prey demo videos that were referred to...
http://www.chimerakennels.com/preydrivelake.wmv
http://www.chimerakennels.com/preydrivetruck1.wmv
When I posted these "prey work only" video "demos" in a previous topic, I was asked...
"In the long run, what habits are you teaching by this exercise..? Are you proofing the dog for something..?"
There is no "long run" because that demo was a one time deal. The dog was not taught to do this. His prey drive is just high enough that I could present anything and he would go for it...and go around whatever was in his way.
The dog is not being proofed for anything.
My previous answer to this question was, "The (prey drive only) videos are one deminsional videos and only illustrate prey drive...and they are simply demonstrations of what prey drive alone is about in order to enlighten people of the difference between a protection dog (as seen above) and a dog working exclusively in prey drive (as seen below). Do not be duped into believing a one deminsional prey drive only dog is a PP dog, because it is not. They are easily fooled into biting alternate objects or even the people around them. Although some of the videos below show some entertaining clips, you should also notice prey drive alone doesn't necessarily require a dog to sustain any form of pressure from the decoy."
Apparently, I should have gone into more detail as to why this was done. I thought my explaination was pretty clear, but apparently not...so, I will try again.
The PURPOSE of that video was ONLY to illustrate to someone that doesn't know what real PP work is that prey drive alone, despite how committed a dog is...is not enough to be a realiable protection dog for the real world. I believe a lot of people make statements like that, but some people that make such statements do so because they don't have experience with dogs that have outstanding prey drive...and for this reason some will "brush off" their statements even if they are right. So, I wanted to make a video that 1. shows that I do have dogs with high prey drive, and still 2. believe that a dog that works in prey drive alone is not a good PP dog. Grit (the dog in the video) does have defense, but these two videos were done in prey alone (in fact, the truck video I catch my own dog). You can see the dog show commitment to make the bite and stay on the bite, but this doesn't illustrate the dog's ability to endure a threat...and that is something that a buyer of a PP dog should be aware of. The video's purpose is therefore "buyer's education" informing a buyer that they need to look for MORE than just prey work.
In referrence to MY comment "Do not be duped into believing a one deminsional prey drive only dog is a PP dog, because it is not. They are easily fooled into biting alternate objects or even the people around them."
I was asked..."You do not show this in your video. In each of these, the dog is *solely* interested in the sleeve. There is nothing to show your statement of the dog being unstable and redirecting at the handler or at another opject, in favor of the sleeve. In those videos, it's being shown as an elaborate game of catch where the dog doesn't get in trouble for knocking someone over. Once the sleeve is in the dog's mouth, the person slips it off or walks away or in some cases, (as in the truck video) doesn't move at all, just acts triumphant.
What does this teach the dog? Once the sleeve is caught, the threat/game is over.
The man still remains.
I feel, personally, that this will teach the dog bad habits that could be easily worked around by doing things a little differently from the beginning of training, and wanted to bring it to light in hopes that you could learn from this-- as well as everyone else on this board. "
I added the underline to a portion of the quote above that I will come back to in a momment.
I do not make a habit of making prey videos for the purposes of educating others unfamiliar with PP dogs. This isn't something we repeatedly do in hopes to illustrate the difference of PP and prey work. A couple of first cut videos should suffice. However, when I made the video, I wanted people who are in need of a PP dog to see that the dog WAS focussed on the sleeve exclusively in those videos. The sleeve is nothing. It is not a threat. This dog would easily be dupted into targetting ANY TYPE OF PREY OBJECT...be it a purse, a stick, a rag, a coat, a sack, a sleeve, a suit, or even a person. The item is irrelivent. It is all about how the item is presented. There is nothing "majical" about a sleeve. The dog LEARNS to see it as prey only because of how it is presented via training.
In referrence to the underlined portion...I didn't make any such comment. I don't recall saying anything about being unstable or redirecting onto the handler in referrence to those videos. My comment about biting a person around them is in referrence to a dog that works in prey drive can still give an impression as a PP dog and can bite a decoy (person) and still not be a reliable PP dog. The type prey item is irrelivennt. I gave no referrence to stability or lack of in referrence to those videos. Those were my dogs, and if they were unstable I would have never used them in my program. Snaps was one of the most prey only dogs I have ever owned, and still...you get a decoy to present themself to her, and she will bite a "prey item" that comes in the form of a person. A dog could perform such simple tasks without stability ever coming into play...as there is no stress in those videos. Stability IMO is more of a measure of mental focus. A dog that is focussed on a man coming in the form of prey does not mean the dog is unstable. So, on that note, I would say the comments about instability or biting a handler is not relivent, and is based entirely on an assumption where the questioner changed my words.
In a REAL situation, the training is indeed different from prey only work. All this said, prey work does have a place IMO. Not everyone agrees, but one can use prey work to develop a good bite and/or grip. This skill can become reflex...and when doing PP work although a dog will know the situation is different it will have learned a good strike and grip as a result of the prey work. The reason the dog is cool with me when I drop the sleeve is because it is me that dropped it. A dog is intelligent enough to know the difference between me and someone else that is threatening them. Should a threatening person drop their protective equipment, the threat is still there...so the dog will be paying attention to them. If he/she doesn't, well then a good decoy will teach the dog that they better do so. In the beginning you remove all posibilities for failure, but once the basics are learned, the dog really learns much more when he/she is given the oppertunity for failure and discovers what works and what doesn't work. For example, watch this video and notice that when Preacher spins after being called off the bite, the decoy slaps him on his ass so he will off without loosing focus. Now, preacher offs in a manner when he maintains focus on the decoy...which prevents the decoy from being able to attack without getting bit...which is what a PP dog should do.
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