Pope Francis doubts authenticity of Medjugorje apparitions
Posted by Pete on May 14, 2017, 5:03 pm
Don't know what you guys will make of this since you are BOTH anti Pope Francis AND anti Medjugorje... ..
" While the investigations into the very first alleged apparitions at Medjugorje must continue, Pope Francis has said he has doubts about claims that Mary continues to appear in the village in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Asked on May 13 about the authenticity of the Marian apparitions, which reportedly began in 1981, the Pope referred to the findings of a commission chaired by Cardinal Camillo Ruini, the retired papal vicar of Rome.
“The report has its doubts, but personally, I am a little worse,” the Pope told reporters traveling with him from Fatima in Portugal (full text). “I prefer Our Lady as mother, our mother, and not Our Lady as head of the post office who sends a message at a stated time.”
“This isn’t Jesus’s mother,” he said. “And these alleged apparitions don’t have much value. I say this as a personal opinion, but it is clear. Who thinks that Our Lady says, ‘Come, because tomorrow at this time I will give a message to that seer?’ No!”
Three of the six young people who originally claimed to have seen Mary in Medjugorje in June 1981 say she continues to appear to them each day; the other three say Mary appears to them once a year now.
A diocesan commission studied the alleged apparitions in 1982-1984 and again in 1984-1986 with more members; and the then-Yugoslavian bishops’ conference studied them from 1987 to 1990. All three commissions concluded that they could not affirm that a supernatural event was occurring in the town.
Despite his personal doubts, the Pope said that the “spiritual and pastoral facts cannot be denied: People go there and convert, people who find God, who change their lives. There isn’t magic there,” he said.
In February, Pope Francis appointed Polish Archbishop Henryk Hoser of Warsaw-Praga to study the pastoral needs of the townspeople and the thousands of pilgrims who flock to Medjugorje each year. He told reporters those people deserve spiritual care and support."
Being, I presume, one of “you guys”, let me try injecting a little accuracy into this thread.
Am I “anti Pope Francis”? As a Catholic, I am entitled to query papal statements that appear to contradict established Catholic doctrine. So, if you wish to label me “anti doubtful Doctrine”, go right ahead – I’d agree, but you need to know a lot more about the me that doesn’t appear on these screen pages in order to justify your accusation.
Am I anti Medjugorje? I haven’t the faintest idea where this one comes from, Pete. I can’t recall a single word I have ever written about Medjugorje. It has never loomed large on my horizon, so I don’t really have an opinion, one way or the other. Dream on.
Specifically in regard to this article, I agree with the Pope when he says:
“I prefer Our Lady as mother, our mother, and not Our Lady as head of the post office who sends a message at a stated time.”
Re: Who needs accuracy, when a splatter might be effective?
Thanks for correcting me vis a vis your position on Medjugorje. It was a little ill-advised and lazy of me to use such a sweeping generalisation without being sure of the precise views of all who contribute here (small in number though they are these days).
I can't say I recall any particular contribution from yourself on Medjugorje. My perception that most here are anti-Medjugorje is based on my only being able to recall posts critical of and sceptical about Medjugorje. In the past I have felt generally favourable regarding the alleged apparitions and messages purported to be from Our Lady and my exposure to same contributed to my developing a relationship with and understanding of Mary's role in the Church and in our Faith lives. That being said I understand and accept that the Church must make the final decision regarding the authenticity or otherwise of the apparitions. I do keep a check on the alleged messages from time to time and must admit it has occurred to me that there is a certain blandness or repetitive to the messages that might support the assertion of Pope Francis regarding lack of "value". I haven't come across anything that convincingly seems to go against Church teaching.
I don't purport to understand or know your complete views or position on Pope Francis, doubtful doctrine etc. Admittedly I'm an infrequent visitor to this board but as with Medjugorje, the tone towards Pope Francis seems consistently and increasingly negative. I do have some doubts about Pope Francis but I don't think they are as strong as seems to be common here. I can also acknowledge he says a lot of very good things which are both very sound doctrinally and spiritually. I understand to some extent the concerns regarding Amoris Laetitia but am not convinced that he has given license to overturn the Church's teaching regarding Communion to the divorced and remarried. The times I find myself feeling uncertain and a bit concerned about him is when he seems to embrace the Social Justice Gospel a little too heavily - the one that tends to reduce the Gospel to Justice and human works and diminish or even ignore the larger implications and message of the Gospel.
So once again, my apologies if you felt unfairly targeted in my rather broad and ill-considered generalisation and thanks for taking the time to clarify your position and views.
Pete
--Previous Message-- : : Being, I presume, one of “you guys”, let me : try injecting a little accuracy into this : thread. : : Am I “anti Pope Francis”? As a Catholic, I : am entitled to query papal statements that : appear to contradict established Catholic : doctrine. So, if you wish to label me “anti : doubtful Doctrine”, go right ahead – I’d : agree, but you need to know a lot more about : the me that doesn’t appear on these screen : pages in order to justify your accusation. : Am I anti Medjugorje? I haven’t the : faintest idea where this one comes from, : Pete. I can’t recall a single word I have : ever written about Medjugorje. It has never : loomed large on my horizon, so I don’t : really have an opinion, one way or the : other. Dream on. : : Specifically in regard to this article, I : agree with the Pope when he says: “I prefer : Our Lady as mother, our mother, and not Our : Lady as head of the post office who sends a : message at a stated time.” : :
In many respects, my attitude to Medjugorje and Pope Francis are similar inasmuch as in both cases, I hear things I can agree with by virtue of the fact that they accord with traditional Catholicism, and things I can’t agree with because of a lack of concordance with my understanding of the Faith. The former I can use for edification, and the latter I can either ignore, or attempt to counteract. Since Medjugorje is a private revelation, if anything, I don’t waste any of my time trying to debunk the parts I disagree with, but in the case of the Pope, there is nothing private there; it is all only too openly out in the public domain, in which case, I feel it is open to question. I think that just because he is the Pope, we should not feel obliged to unthinkingly accept everything he says. That would be the very worst form of clericalism.