>I see. So the idea that support for the truth is 'spreading' makes no difference? If it is the truth then it doesn't matter if support for it is growing or not?
That’s true – it remains the truth, even if not one person admits it. My point was that it is encouraging to see that more are speaking out, thus indicating that there are at least pockets of the Church that have not fallen under the influence of the self-styled “progressives”, and cast aside truth in favour of fables. It is encouraging to find that people are using their God-given intelligence, instead of tuning their itching ears into the teachers after their own desires, that Saint Paul warned us of.
>But, from what I have seen of the document -- and echoed in your own post -- a key point made is that 'many' of the faithful are confused and this is a key motivation.
Of course confusion among many of the faithful is a key motivation, and the Cardinals – all bishops, and therefore the acknowledged teachers of the Faith – are doing their duty of attempting to remove confusion and restore calm. After all, the Libera nos prayer of the Mass from the 1962 Missal reads: Deliver us, we beseech Thee, O Lord, from all evils, past, present and to come, and by the intercession of the Blessed and glorious ever Virgin Mary, Mother of God, together with Thy blessed apostles Peter and Paul, and Andrew, and all the Saints, + mercifully grant peace in our days, that through the bounteous help of Thy mercy we may be always free from sin, and safe from all disquiet.
>If that is the case then it surely is important to provide some evidence of what 'many' means.
You’re sounding more and more like Faz with each passing comment, but the evidence is all there if you bother to read some truly Catholic publications. Each of the Cardinals has obviously received many requests from parishioners and there has been at least one formal request signed by clergy from all over the world for those particular Cardinals to act.
>Surely it is also relevant to observe that nearly all bishops have not expressed concern about the Popes document? And that is so for the cardinals too.
That’s true, and distressing, but as I pointed out earlier, it is not relevant, as the Church is not a democracy; holding the majority of the votes is not what makes one right. Adherence to the truths of the Faith is what assures rectitude.
>If the numbers are not important, then why make an issue of them?
You’re back to your first point, and I’m back to my first answer; it is encouraging – note, encouraging, not justifying - to find further pockets of Faith. Those of us who love the Church and the Faith rejoice in finding others of like mind.
>Beyond that, you imply that the Pope has, in effect, challenged the 'truths of the faith'. That, I believe, is an assertion.
No, I didn’t imply that at all. What I said was: “The Pope has no authority to change that, and the Cardinals are therefore within their rights to request him to clarify the position, and affirm that the only allowable interpretation of his words is the traditional interpretation. “ This makes the assumption that of all the interpretations that have been placed on the Pope’s words, only one is correct, and that was the one the Pope had in mind, despite the looseness of his wording.
>My countryman Cardinal Müller, I think, has said that nothing in Amoris Laetitia can be interpreted in such a way as to contradict previous teaching.
You can believe that if you find it comforting. Just be aware that at the Judgment Seat, your comfort might not of paramount importance.
>Is that not an end to the matter? Is that not a clear 'clarification' if one was needed?
I can’t believe you hold that, but perhaps double standards are your stock-in-trade. What you are asserting is that Cardinal Müller must be right, but Cardinal Burke and his associates must be wrong. And you were bleating earlier about evidence! The evidence is in Denzinger.
>As for your observations about 'treacle', we have a similar substance called Zuckerrübensirup but I'm not so familiar.
Na und?
>Thank you for your concern about warmth. Germans are good at keep warm. It is a matter of necessity.
But it wouldn’t hurt you to breathe out a bit more carbon dioxide if you believe in that sort of thing. Try to convince the fairies at the bottom of your garden to do the same.
Have a nice Christmas, Hans
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