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Posted by K9 NorthWest
on August 8, 2009, 1:29 am, in reply to "Re: Rick"
207.200.116.72
Lets resend that with some italics so we can see who is saying what or it looks hard to read!
Think of it a little like a wolf and a rabbit. As soon as the rabbit starts to hop away the movement catches the wolfs eye and the wolf is enticed to chase, catch and eat. Without this basic drive the wolf would starve to death. And although it is a little different for a sport dog because they aren't in jeopardy of starving it is the same drive that pushes them to catch something that is moving. A rag, then a tug, then a sleeve or a suit. A game is built upon a dogs natural drive to survive.
That's a great definition of prey. Basically the key to prey and prey building (this is for the decoy) is that prey NEVER challenges the dog. To build prey the decoy must make no eye contact, forward movement, etc. Prey ALWAYS runs away. If the decoy feeds the sleeve when trying to build prey they are defeating the entire idea. Ever see a rabbit jump into a wolf's mouth?
Once you make eye contact, move into the dog, or square off to the dog you are introducing defense. Often dogs even as the smallest of puppies have no trouble with this, of course you will meet the dog that does. When you are trying to build prey in a dog like a fila you need to temporarily go back to the simplest of prey to get the fastest results. Prey will give you those nice full mouth bites and that desire to run after the bad guy down the field.
Like him or hate him when Butch was out at the first NW Working dogs bite seminar he gave the clearest and easiest definition of the defense verses prey bite I have yet to hear. Slightly modified and added to...... When a dog chases a rabbit to bite he will catch the rabbit with his entire mouth. That rabbit is his dinner and chance for survival. The "full bite" helps ensure his dinner won't get away.
Now that same wolf meets Mr. Bear. Wolf knows that bear can kick his but, he has two choices.... Run away or fight. Wolf has enough "balls" to stand ground and fight but he knows that bear can really put a hurting on him. He wants that fight over as fast as possible and with as little encounters with the bear as possible in the fight. So wolf bites but not with that full bite, the last thing he wants to do is KEEP the bear there. He bites shallow with the front piercing teeth. He bites HARD and painfully but immediately lets go. He wants to tell Mr bear "hey I can really hurt you but I'm giving you the chance to go away".
See the difference in how the dog bites depending on the situation? Prey pulls out the deep bites and he wants to hold on or "keep his dinner". Defense bites bite shallow but very hard and then release as soon as the object is in retreat. Now I bet you are thinking why can't I have the best of both worlds, a full bite that won't let go with bone crushing power and a seriousness to it? Ahh but YOU CAN!!!!
This is ware some call it "fight drive" wile others say there is no such thing. Whatever the name, by properly training (decoy's job) the dog with a BALANCE of prey and defense you can blend the two with confidence to create that amazing "man stopper". A dog that does not stress when confronted with a decoy (or real life situation) and will take on the adversaries with the drive of a prey monster but the seriousness of a defensive dog.
Defense is pushing the dog to decide whether he is going to fight for his life or run away. **Look up table training** Although it is not something I would ever do. It is done frequently with German Shepards. Odin protects you out of a defense mode. He is protecting what he believes is his. (That's you)
I discussed a bit about defense above. Defense is not necessarily about guarding what is "his". It can be many things including fear for there own butt. sadly FAR TO OFTEN this is what dogs have as defense. Often these dogs know they are on a leash and the flight or fight option is very small. They are fearful but have enough of that fight in them to say so. Tell tale signs are a dog that is crouched low with ears back throwing calming signals wile looking like it wants to eat you. This dog will probably come forward to the end of the leash but backs up again when some pressure is applied, I.E. the decoy comes in aggressively. This is the dog that starts to back up if the decoy comes in rapidly or aggressively, typically barking and lunging as he does so. This is a dog in pure defense that is fearful. Typically through "training" they learn to stand there ground better but it is stressful and they do not enjoy the work at all. This is NOT a dog I trust my life with, you never know if given the option they will just choose flight. This is also a dog that will have the MOST trouble with sends. The dog looses all his confidence once away from the "pack"(handler).
NOT all defensive dogs are fear bags, some are the most confident dogs you will ever meet. These dogs have learned through training (or nature) that they CAN WIN any fight and use that defense plus confidence to wipe out anything in it's path. I am currently rehabbing two separate pit bull cases that have this "problem". It is a problem because these are family pets (not PP dogs) that will kill any human they could outside the family! Both these dogs view strangers as a threat. Using defense they attack with confidence that they can win the fight.
I saw your fila earned his CGC that is GREAT. I have never met your fila so I would not ever pass a temperament call on him but the fact he earned his CGC gives me an idea that he is a confident socialized fila. Sadly most filas are total fear bags due to ill breeding and owners that keep them hidden away in dark corners for fear of "making them friendly". Filas are a defensive breed, you NEED to give them confidence or that defense will make them fear the world. Adding that confidence lets them relax enough to not see the red flashing light any time something new comes around. Remember confidence tells them they can win the fight and not think about running instead.
So how on earth do you take a defensive fila and build confidence? THROUGH PREY! You want those sends, well the easiest way is to tell your fila that the decoy is dinner and it's getting away!!!!! Oden better go catch his dinner!!! Trouble is that the defense kicks in so easy that the prey can be forgotten and dinner goes back to "bad guy" that he must send away (think bear). Filas can take a modified decoy style to pull out that prey and get those great results.
Different breeds, based upon what they were bred for work in different modes. A Pit Bull for example will work mostly out of prey. A dog like Odin is mostly defensive.
Sadly I'm finding to many ill bred "pits" now that are way to defensive. Bad breeding has taken away generations after generations of breeding NO human aggression.
There is no right or wrong here, just different.
Oden has prey in him and a send can come quite naturally. It is the decoy's job to pull it out of him and make him want it. The decoy just needs to work him in pure prey for a bit to balance the dog. It is perfectly natural for oden, every dog has a prey drive. After all bunnies taste yummy!
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